pktechgirlbackup (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
pktechgirlbackup) wrote2012-10-11 08:20 pm
pktechgirlbackup) wrote2012-10-11 08:20 pm
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A non-exhaustive definition of creepy.
There are certain things that are supposed to be based on mutual desire, sex and romance being the primary examples. I will freely admit that this mutual desire is a relatively new context for both of those things, but I'm not changing my position. I think the belief that sex or marriage when one partner doesn't want it is a profound violation is one of the best parts of living of living in the future. It's not just that sex without mutual desire is wrong, it's a profound violation of the concept, which is why it not okay to describe an accusation of rape as a "sex scandal". Romance is, if anything, more dependent on the idea of mutual reciprocity. You can have unrequited love, but a romance it is not.
There are lots of smaller things built on the same concept. It is not enough to want to do things with your friends, you need to want to do things that they enjoy. Obviously there are things we do even though neither of us want to be doing them, like moving my stuff, and sometimes you do a thing you otherwise wouldn't to support your friend (thanks in advance, supporters of my nascent stand up career). Hell, sometimes you have sex you otherwise wouldn't be into because it will make your partner happy. But it is still important that those things 1. be recognized as being driven by one person, 2. be given freely, and 3. be relatively infrequent, relative to truly mutual interactions.
Disagreement on mutuality can cause a lot of discomfort. To use the least loaded example, consider if your friend is accepted into an art show, and invites you to be their guest. They think they're doing you a favor because you get to go to this cool art show for free. You think you're doing them a favor because you're going to a boring thing to support them. You can't inform them of their misperception because then you're basically saying "your art is boring". But the etiquette of turning down favors is very different than turning down requests for favors and it just becomes ARGH.*
Now, back to sex. I don't think you need people's consent to find them attractive or even fantasize about sex with them, provided you're discreet.** So in a certain sense, it's totally cool to want sex with someone who doesn't want you back. But you need to be clear that you wouldn't actually have sex with them if they weren't into it. When you are dealing with an actual person you could conceivably have sex with, this distinction is even more important.
And this is why violating an assumption of mutual enjoyment is a very fast way to get you on my "do not sleep with" list. It's not that every friend who invites you to their poetry slam is a secretly thinking "I would totally penetrate that person without their consent." It's that the skills needed to recognize and care that someone isn't in to something generalize. I had a failed date a few months ago in which the guy kept trying to cuddle. I gave it a shot, didn't enjoy it, and stopped. He kept- well pushing is such a strong word, but definitely trying. And in one sense, it was an ambiguous situation and you can't fault a guy for trying. But in another sense, his behavior reflects the idea that me being into the current stage is not a prerequisite for escalation. This is also why I found Michael Ian Black's bit on women not finding him funny so disturbing: he was angry at them for not giving him something that should be an expression of enjoyment.
So I think one form of creepiness is someone unilaterally escalating towards something that should be mutual. It is probably not the only form, but it is significant.
*Friends I rope into coming to open mic nights with me: I'm very clear on who is doing the favor for who.
**To keep this simple, let's say discreet means there is absolutely no difference in your behavior towards people you do and don't fantasize about. I think you could argue there's some wiggle room there, but I only need the weakest form for this argument. Also, there are still certain cases where it is never okay, like a high school teacher fantasizing about their students.
There are lots of smaller things built on the same concept. It is not enough to want to do things with your friends, you need to want to do things that they enjoy. Obviously there are things we do even though neither of us want to be doing them, like moving my stuff, and sometimes you do a thing you otherwise wouldn't to support your friend (thanks in advance, supporters of my nascent stand up career). Hell, sometimes you have sex you otherwise wouldn't be into because it will make your partner happy. But it is still important that those things 1. be recognized as being driven by one person, 2. be given freely, and 3. be relatively infrequent, relative to truly mutual interactions.
Disagreement on mutuality can cause a lot of discomfort. To use the least loaded example, consider if your friend is accepted into an art show, and invites you to be their guest. They think they're doing you a favor because you get to go to this cool art show for free. You think you're doing them a favor because you're going to a boring thing to support them. You can't inform them of their misperception because then you're basically saying "your art is boring". But the etiquette of turning down favors is very different than turning down requests for favors and it just becomes ARGH.*
Now, back to sex. I don't think you need people's consent to find them attractive or even fantasize about sex with them, provided you're discreet.** So in a certain sense, it's totally cool to want sex with someone who doesn't want you back. But you need to be clear that you wouldn't actually have sex with them if they weren't into it. When you are dealing with an actual person you could conceivably have sex with, this distinction is even more important.
And this is why violating an assumption of mutual enjoyment is a very fast way to get you on my "do not sleep with" list. It's not that every friend who invites you to their poetry slam is a secretly thinking "I would totally penetrate that person without their consent." It's that the skills needed to recognize and care that someone isn't in to something generalize. I had a failed date a few months ago in which the guy kept trying to cuddle. I gave it a shot, didn't enjoy it, and stopped. He kept- well pushing is such a strong word, but definitely trying. And in one sense, it was an ambiguous situation and you can't fault a guy for trying. But in another sense, his behavior reflects the idea that me being into the current stage is not a prerequisite for escalation. This is also why I found Michael Ian Black's bit on women not finding him funny so disturbing: he was angry at them for not giving him something that should be an expression of enjoyment.
So I think one form of creepiness is someone unilaterally escalating towards something that should be mutual. It is probably not the only form, but it is significant.
*Friends I rope into coming to open mic nights with me: I'm very clear on who is doing the favor for who.
**To keep this simple, let's say discreet means there is absolutely no difference in your behavior towards people you do and don't fantasize about. I think you could argue there's some wiggle room there, but I only need the weakest form for this argument. Also, there are still certain cases where it is never okay, like a high school teacher fantasizing about their students.